Re: a 'piece' of NTSC video needed...

From: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
Date: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST
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<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
</address>
<div class="mail">
<address class="headers">
<span id="from">
<dfn>From</dfn>: Scott Walde <scott_at_no.spam.please>
</span>
<span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Tue Apr 22 2008 - 17:15:05 CST</span>
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<p>Von wrote:
<em class="quotelev1">> Yes, but thanks for pointing it out in case I wasn't.
</em>
<p>I forwarded your request to some colleagues that know what they're
talking about.
<p>In addition to these emails, I spoke to Ken who says he doesn't have any
capture equipment that will do 4:4:4, so anything he has will be at
least "Chroma Subsampled."
<p>One suggestion might be to generate something in Blender. That way you
can make a real uncompressed video file with motion.
<p>-------------------------------
From: George
<p>What kind of format does he need it in? I'm sure Ken could generate an
uncompressed file out of Edit 1.
<p>There's no tape format that's actually uncompressed... Beta SP isn't
digitally compressed, but its method of recording colour is a type of
analog compression. For true unadulterated video, you'd need to take
analog component directly out of a camera.
<p><p>---------------------------------
From: Tracy
<p>What is is final purpose for it....all this testing has been done by guys with scopes that are worth more than everything I own. If its for anything from NTSC land its old news.
<p>Or what I would do is -
<p>Just generate a 2-4 min piece with a)color bars so you can see 'no movement edge detail' b) bars moving horizontaly at various rates and distance c) circular movement of the bars with varying radius 's's's and rate d) talking head e) exploding talking head
<p>The last one may not be neccessary. Then use after effects of combustion or anything that can split screen it. Also, "uncompressed NTSC" will look like ass unless it is de-interlaced first. This can be handled by some encoders at the render stage, but some just try to compress the interlacing.
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Received on Tue Apr 22 17:15:25 2008

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